Episode 205: How to Market a Thriller

Book Marketing

Oct 17

Written By Lainey Cameron

Watch now on YouTube!

Coming on audio platforms Friday Oct 31st.

Thriller authors, Kimberly Belle and Saleema Ishq join us to chat about what has worked for them in reaching thriller and suspense genre readers with their books.

Kimberly Belle is the Edgar Award winning, USA Today & internationally bestselling author with over one million copies sold worldwide. Her titles include The Paris Widow, The Marriage Lie, a Goodreads Choice Awards semifinalist for Best Mystery & Thriller, and the co-authored #1 Audible Original, Young Rich Widows series.

Saleema Ishq is a former copywriter turned award-winning thriller author who accidentally fell in love with book marketing while launching her debut novel. Since then, she’s sold thousands of books, grown a TikTok community of 16k+, and picked up a few awards and media shoutouts along the way (all without burning out or selling out).

About Kimberly Belle

Kimberly’s novels have been optioned for film and television and selected by LibraryReads and Amazon & Apple Books Editors as Best Books of the Month, and the International Thriller Writers as nominee for best book of the year. She divides her time between Atlanta and Amsterdam.

Connect with Kimberly:

About Saleema Ishq

Connect with Saleema:

Episode Resources

5 Steps to an Author Brand (That Feels Like YOU) This guide will help you build an author brand that's memorable, so the right readers know exactly who you are, what you believe, and why your stories are for them.

Killer Author Club, a bi-monthly, 30-minute author interview series and podcast hosted by NYT and USA-Today bestselling authors Heather Gudenkauf, Kimberly Belle, and Kaira Rouda about books and all things crime and killing—of the fictional kind.

Readers Coffee House community on Facebook

Books Mentioned

The Expat Affair by Kimberly Belle

An American expat‘s startling discovery plunges her into the glamorous but deadly world of Amsterdam’s diamond industry.

Sisters Arcana by Saleema Ishq

Mental health meets the esoteric world of tarot in Sisters Arcana, a psychological thriller that explores sisterhood, grief, and the path to self-trust.

Full Disclosure: We are part of the Amazon affiliate program, which means Lainey earns a tiny commission (maybe enough for a coffee) if you buy something after clicking through from a link on this website.

Episode Sponsor

12 Weeks to Book Launch Success -Join Lainey’s program to help you successfully launch your book. Next group starts in March 2026!

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In the 12 Weeks to Book Launch Success mastermind program, Lainey works one on one with a group of authors and help you create a plan to successfully launch your book.

Does this Sound Like You?

✓ Excited about your book launch
✓ Overwhelmed by where to start with marketing?
✓ Confused about timing—what needs to happen when?
✓ Unsure which tactics are worth your precious time and money?
✓ Terrified you'll miss something critical and blow your chance at launch success?

You're not alone. Many authors get terrible advice, and waste thousands on ineffective tactics.

What If You Could Launch With Confidence?

Imagine how it would feel to…

✓ Know with certainty you've built the best possible launch plan for YOUR book
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Building a successful book launch is possible as a new author—even without a massive social media following.

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Note: next sections are mostly created by AI for your convenience - so please forgive any typos or inaccuracies!

Summary

Paulette Stout and Lainey Cameron discuss marketing thrillers with authors Kimberly Belle and Saleema Ishq.

Kimberly Belle, an Edgar Award-winning author, emphasizes persistence and collaboration, noting her success with the "Killer Author Club."

Saleema Ishq highlights the importance of personal branding and community engagement, particularly on TikTok, where she has 16,000 followers.

Both authors agree on the value of authenticity, leveraging backlist, and maintaining a strong online presence. They also discuss the challenges of traditional marketing tactics like Facebook ads and the importance of influencer relationships and newsletters in sustaining reader engagement.

Thriller Marketing Strategies

Lainey asks about the most impactful marketing strategies for thriller authors.

Kimberly emphasizes the importance of persistence and finding the right publishing home, noting that success is a gradual process.

Saleema highlights the significance of personal branding and creating a strong online presence to attract bookstores and events.

Thriller Reader Discovery and Marketing Elements

Lainey inquires about how thriller readers discover books and the unique aspects of thriller marketing.

Saleema explains that thriller readers are detectives and inquisitive, looking for unpredictability and community recommendations.

Kimberly and Saleema agree that comp titles and dual POVs are effective in marketing thrillers, making them more discoverable and engaging.

Challenges and Surprises in Book Marketing

Lainey asks about surprising or challenging aspects of book marketing.

Saleema shares that she learned to focus on authenticity and raw, relatable content, rather than overly polished posts.

Kimberly mentions the evolving nature of marketing strategies and the importance of staying updated with what works.

Seasonality and Traditional Marketing Tactics

Paulette asks about the timing and seasonality of promoting thrillers.

Saleema suggests a four to six-month lead time for promotion, while Kimberly notes that traditional publishers often start much earlier.

Kimberly discusses the value of attending conferences and events for long-term brand awareness and reader engagement.

Community and Collaboration in Thriller Marketing

Paulette asks about the role of community and collaboration in their careers.

Kimberly highlights the importance of building a network of fellow authors and collaborating through projects like the Killer Author Club.

Saleema emphasizes the support and accountability found in author communities and the value of connecting with readers on platforms like TikTok.

Influencer Relationships and Social Media Platforms

Paulette inquires about the role of influencers in book marketing.

Kimberly and Saleema agree that building genuine relationships with influencers is crucial, often starting as readers and fans.

Kimberly shares her experience with the Killer Author Club and the importance of collaborating with other authors to lift each other up.

Maintaining Momentum and Future Plans

Lainey asks about maintaining momentum after a book launch.

Kimberly mentions staying nimble and leveraging current events to keep her books relevant.

Saleema continues marketing consistently, highlighting new releases, sales, and behind-the-scenes content to keep her audience engaged.

Final Thoughts and Closing Remarks

Lainey and Paulette discuss the importance of supporting each other in the writing community and the value of authenticity in marketing.

Saleema shares her marketing services for authors, focusing on TikTok and Instagram strategies, and Lainey promotes her marketing program for debut authors.

Transcript

Paulette Stout 00:01

Hello everyone, and welcome to the latest episode of the Best of Book Marketing podcast. I am Paulette Stout and Lainey Cameron is here, and we are super thrilled to have two amazing authors with us today to discuss how to market thrillers. We have Kimberly Belle and Saleema Ishq and they will be giving us all the deets. So stay tuned for that. Very excited. This is a very requested episode. We have lots of thrillers and, you know, want to pay it forward for everybody so we can do personal updates first, so then we'll dive into our guest portion. Lainey, you want to kick us off with updates?

Lainey Cameron 00:43

Sure. So my updates are that I got all my beta feedback back for my second book. I'm really excited, super excited. I've gone all the way through it. I think I've got my head around it. And this morning, I started implementing the changes. And so it's like any beta feedback, you know, you kind of is it? Neil Gaiman who said, look at where they pointed, not exactly what everybody told you to do. And so a you know, I've clearly got some work to do on backstory. I've got some work to do on the ending, but nothing too major, and still really optimistic that I'll get this book finished this year, which, after five years of working on it, I am awfully excited.

Lainey Cameron 01:16

And let's see other things I'm getting geared up to go to author nation, which is the big publishing, self publishing conference, indie publishing conference, at the beginning of November. So if anyone is going to be in Vegas, definitely reach out. Come say hi. I'll be hanging at the bar, buying people margaritas, chilling out. So definitely would love to see you if you're there. And my big news, let's see if I can pull this up. Can I can I come over here, baby? Nope, the dog does not want to come here. I will see if I can. So I told you that I wanted to get a dog. Let's see if I can pull this off. Nope, he's not going to be in the shot. He's just, he's just not going to be in the shot because he's annoyed with me right now because we move maybe, maybe later, I can pull him into the shot so you can meet him.

Lainey Cameron 01:56

But I adopted a husky who is my new writing partner, and I'm super excited. He's two years old. He's a super love bug, and it's kind of fun. He's working, hanging out in my office these days. So I think those are my big things for now. Oh, one more thing. I talked last month about how we how I relaunched the exit strategy with the new cover. It's going really well, and I'm doing a lot of experimentation with Amazon ads at this point, and seeing whether Amazon ads will work for a book like that. So kind of fun to have an opportunity to look back on a book five years later. So those are my main things. What about you, Paulette, you got a long list, right?

Paulette Stout 02:32

I have, I haven't been a few things, so I'm really excited. I did just launch the second edition of love. Only better my debut novel, completely rewritten first person. Did a lot of updates, tighten the plot, you know, fix the characterization, added an Epilog. We did the opening. There's a lot of really great goodness. And I think, you know, we can talk another time about when's the right time to write a second edition, but for me, it felt like it was the right time, you know, for mostly for book marketing purposes. Ah, there's the pooch. There's the pooch. So it is being offered as a good weeds giveaway right now through November 1, depending on your listen to this episode, so you can go and join the good weeds giveaway and also working on recovering my entire series. I think that it's time for me to listen to my readers. They tell me my books are romance. I'm going to be where I'm working on the covers.

Paulette Stout 03:33

I hired Damonza, if you listen to last episode, Damonza was who Lainey used working with the team there to give a more of a romance lens to the covers. So I'm excited for that also in an anthology that is launching November 1. It is called where kindness lives. It is a women's fiction anthology with stories from nine authors. And if everyone wants a little bit of kindness in your life these days, and you want to support authors kind of doing their thing in this crazy world. Appreciate you supporting where kindness lives. It's available on Amazon, will be on print other places too. So look for that. So just really excited about those two things, and just also just trying to be a little bit kind to myself and manage my energy and working on some speeches that you know, doing for next year. Excited. Oh, this weekend, I'll be in active Massachusetts at a craft fair. So if you're in the area of Massachusetts, you can stop by and see me at the Conant craft fair.

Lainey Cameron 04:36

And I've told you before, I don't know how you manage a full time job with being an option else you're doing. So like, kudos to you. I think it's almost, I don't know how you do it. I couldn't have done it so and I get a better angle. Now, here we go. That is what

Paulette Stout 04:47

Aaah. What's his name?

Lainey Cameron 04:48

His name is Kenai, as in the area of Alaska, and as in the guy who turns into a bear in the Disney movie, because he's like a big bear. He came with that name, and he recognizes it. So I. Cool. Okay, let's get going.

Lainey Cameron 05:03

I'm gonna add our guests to the stage, and I am so excited because I have read both of their work, and I am a long term fan of Kimberly Belle, and I recently discovered Saleema, and I'm really enjoying I'm about halfway through the one that has the Tarot angle to it, and it's fascinating. I'm learning a ton. And so what's up? It called sorry Saleema. The titles escape me for the moment.

Saleema Ishq 05:25

Sisters Arcana.

Lainey Cameron 05:26

Sisters Arcana. It's got a really interesting Tarot theme, where I'm learning about I'm, like, on the edge of my seat, but also learning about Tarot. And I think I've read pretty much all of Kimberly's books, like everyone that comes out. I'm always like, on the early arcs on that galley, like, Give me. Give me. So Kimberly is like one of my must, must buy authors. Kimberly writes it, I will read it. So let me.

Lainey Cameron 05:49

So let me do a quick intro, and we'll get into it and talking about how to market a thriller. So Kimberly is the Edgar Award winning USA Today and internationally, best selling author with over 1 million copies sold worldwide, amazing, and her titles include the Paris widow, the marriage lie, which is one of my all time favorite books I used as a comp for my first book when it was coming out. Yeah, she Yeah. She's a Goodreads Choice Awards semi finalist for best mystery and thriller, and the co author, co author of number one audible original rich young, young rich widows series. And she's also a part of a community of thriller offers, and we're going to talk more about that as we get into this idea of like, how do you collaborate with other authors, which is going to be one of our topics of conversation.

Lainey Cameron 06:33

Saleema is a former copywriter turned award winning thrilling thriller author and thrilling author who accidentally fell in love with book marketing while launching her debut novel, same, same. And since then, she sold 1000s of books, grown a Tiktok community of 16,000 which is one of the reasons I wanted Saleema to come talk to us, because Tiktok is interesting and hard, and I think you've made some real progress that people can learn from. And she's picked up a few awards and media shout outs along the way, most importantly, all without burning out or selling out. That's what it says in her bio. And I love that angle, because if we could all achieve that, we'd be happy people. So that is our two guests. I am so excited we get to hand pick our guests for this show. And so it's never accidental who we have on. It's always very, very thoughtful. So Paulette, you're gonna kick us off with the first question.

Paulette Stout 07:22

Yeah. So I think I would just love to hear from each of you, starting with Kimberly, just talk a little bit about your author career from your perspective. Obviously, Lainey said some, but we just love from your perspective. You know about about your career and how you got to where you are now.

Kimberly Belle 07:38

Okay, well, writing is actually my second career. I worked in nonprofit fundraising for many years, and in 2008 when the crash hit, I was doing consulting and lost every single one of my clients overnight, like literally, they just evaporated. And, you know, I had been kicking around in my head. I thought I had a story to tell. Wasn't quite sure what kind of story, and I thought, you know, I can go out and get another job, or maybe this is the universe giving me a nudge. So I decided to go for it. And, you know, spent many years learning, because I sat down and I had no idea what I was doing, right? So I spent a lot of time learning and reading and and going to Margie Lawson and, you know, learning how to put a story together, finding my voice, deciding what kind of genre I wanted to write.

Kimberly Belle 08:34

And we were talking before the show about, you know, these kind of genres that don't quite hit solidly in one genre. My first two books were like that, and they kind of straddled the line between women's fiction and suspense, and they did okay, but my publisher asked me to, you know, kind of sit more solidly in a genre, so we switched me to suspense, and that's kind of when, when things really started to happen for me. That was the marriage lie and, and it just kind of took off and, and it was the right move. And I'm super happy and grateful that they gave me a chance, and, you know, and kind of nudged me in the right direction.

Paulette Stout 09:24

That's fantastic. Saleema, what's tell us about your journey?

Saleema Ishq 09:28

Yeah, my writing career started in during the pandemic, when I was laid off and I started just Yeah, found writing. I started an internship, a copywriting internship, which turned into a staff copywriting job, and I worked as a content writer, and loved the marketing copywriting aspect. I never thought I would ever write fiction. I thought that my first book would be a memoir. I dabbled a little bit in creative nonfiction or and thought maybe. Self Help. But I also learned mental health is a really big part of my author brand, of my writing as well. So I was diagnosed, diagnosed with obsessive compulsive disorder, with existential OCD. So part of the exposure therapy for that is writing out these big what ifs and kind of writing.

Saleema Ishq 10:19

It's called scripting, and you're essentially writing, well, what if this did happen? Here's what, here's what would occur. And these just turned into some really twisted stories that I felt compelled to share with others because make, you know, making gold out of my mental health garbage. But it was really therapeutic for me reading thrillers as well as writing them. So that's how I fell into fiction. I love that.

Lainey Cameron 10:44

Thanks. Okay, so let's get into kind of talking about thriller marketing and how you've approached it. And I guess the first question I have for you is, if you just think as a whole, is there one thing that you've done, and maybe the answer to this is no, it's a lot of things, but is there one thing or approach that you've done that you feel has contributed the most to your success as an author. And let's start with Kimberly.

Kimberly Belle 11:07

I wish, I wish there was a magical button I could push, but I really think that it is a combination of everything that I've done, all the different bits and pieces, and it, you know, it never hit right away. It was all a very slow growing, like, kind of like an oil spill. It just kind of spreads that and a little bit of luck. I found the right home. I found a publishing house that was, you know, willing to stand behind me and willing to invest in me and and they helped me find the right

Lainey Cameron 11:47

readers and not giving up right like you said, the the marriage lie, which was this phenomenal seller, was your third person?

Kimberly Belle 11:55

Yeah, somebody told me in the very beginning of my author career, and I wish I remembered who, but they said that the best authors are, no, the most successful authors are not necessarily the best, but the most persistent. And I was like, game on. I can do that. I can be persistent.

Paulette Stout 12:13

Yeah, I love that. Go ahead. Fully relate. Go ahead. Lima, oh

Saleema Ishq 12:19

no, that's such a great that is such a great notion and sentiment. Kimberly, definitely. I think for me, it was personal branding, creating a personal brand and viewing my author career before it was even a business or a career, before I even published my debut novel, I really looked at it as I am a brand and I'm going to market myself as such. So I took the social media, created my website, and kind of looked at it like a portfolio, because bookstores looked at my social media and my website when deciding if they wanted to book me for events and signings. And luckily, I had a pretty solid presence pretty quickly. And I think that's really what skyrocketed things.

Lainey Cameron 13:04

Well, that actually really leads into our next question, which is, do you think that readers of thriller and suspense, do they discover books differently than other genre readers? So if you compare it to, I don't know, aromas or women's fiction or other readers, is it unique where and how thriller and suspense readers find their books and find their authors. Or is it very similar? In your opinion?

Saleema Ishq 13:25

Yeah, that's such a great question. I think that there are similarities, but a lot of differences as well. Thriller, Thriller readers are detectives and inquisitive by nature. So hooks really are kind of what grabs them, rather than tropes, maybe in other genres, it's the unpredictability. So a single line like I couldn't put this book down, will hook a thriller reader, and I think that they do look to community, to forums, to groups for recommendations. So I think there are, there are some similarities, but definitely it can be very different.

Kimberly Belle 14:01

Yeah, I agree with all that. And I think too, you know, if thriller readers, I can't really speak to the other genres, because I don't, I didn't write in any other genres other than maybe dip to toe into women's fiction. But you know, Thriller writers are very if you liked this author, then you'll like these authors, and so they will just take that as word and go for it. So comps are really important. Blurbs are important as much as we hate asking for them as authors, but they really are.

Paulette Stout 14:38

I wonder, do you find it's not on our list? Lainey, I'm gonna sneak it in. Do you find that that your readers kind of are that voracious variety that you have in like romance and a few other genres that you just have very voracious reader this and there's marketing nuances to that type of an experience? Too. I'll go to Kimberly first on that.

Kimberly Belle 15:02

There are certainly some, I don't know if it's as widespread as in the romance genre. I mean, you have, you have readers that are just plowing through, I don't know how many books a week, and I know of a couple in the thriller space that do that, but I think fewer, but they're still very voracious. It's just not quite as over the top, I think, as in the romance genre.

Saleema Ishq 15:29

But I think the thriller readers, when they find an author that they enjoy, they definitely go to the backlist. Immediately

Kimberly Belle 15:36

agreed,

Saleema Ishq 15:37

yes, it's good for that. I

Kimberly Belle 15:41

love a backlist reader.

Paulette Stout 15:47

So Lainey, do you want to do the Sure?

Lainey Cameron 15:51

So, sure. So What elements do you emphasize in your marketing? And I think it's an interesting, unique challenge here with thrillers, because you've got the twist, and you don't want to give away, right, the spoiler, the twist, but you're trying to use that hook and get interest without giving too much away. How do you approach that, like, what elements of a thriller Do you emphasize as you're talking about a book and trying to get people interested in it? And Kimberly, you go first on this one?

Kimberly Belle 16:17

Well, I think what I what I try to do in, you know, in my social media marketing, and also in the even in the back cover blurb. And any any marketing about the book is really plant a question in the reader's head that they must know the answer to.

Kimberly Belle 16:33

And you know some of that maybe has to do with the twist that's in the book, but really, it's just about grabbing their attention and making them want to know more. And, you know, I don't know if there's one one strategy for doing that. I think it really depends on the premise in the book. Sometimes it's also a little bit of the setting, like the Paris widow came out the year of the Paris Olympics. So, you know, I mean, you can, you can always, like, mesh with with some current events going on as well. But, yeah, it's really about that question, planning that question in their brain.

Lainey Cameron 17:11

So if we think of your latest, the expat affair, which I loved, it takes you into Amsterdam and the diamond district and the diamond trade. And I felt like I got to learn, like, all these things I didn't know about the diamond world, what was like? What was the question that you were hoping, like you were kind of putting out there for readers on that one?

Kimberly Belle 17:27

Well, you know, the the was, it was actually harder with that book, I thought, because I have two main characters. So which one do you concentrate on? And, you know, the setting is cool, the diamond thing is cool. But really it's about these women, you know, kind of figuring out what's going on in their lives. So I really tried to concentrate on the characters and and, you know what? What issues they were facing, like one of them woke up and her date is dead on the shower floor. Well, who did that? I don't know.

Lainey Cameron 18:03

Maybe that's why I like that one so much, because I had the two characters. I hadn't thought about that before. You know, I'm a woman's fiction lover and also a thriller lover, so maybe that's why I like that one

Saleema Ishq 18:10

so much. Yeah, yeah. And I think that, to that end, that's something too that you that as thriller authors, we can use in marketing too, the dual points of view my sisters are kind of dual timeline. So I wholeheartedly agree with Kimberly that that question that we pose is what grabs readers and then, often using that dual POV, dual timeline, they're also solving mysteries in two different timelines with two different characters. So that keeps readers hooked, and that's what makes them a page turner, too. But that can certainly be used in marketing as as far as tropes and and really grabbing them.

Lainey Cameron 18:49

Yeah, one of, one of the things I like is that you both introduce me the new things that I don't know. So like, whether it's tarot and I don't understand the history and the the meaning of all the tarot cards, or whether it's like the diamond trade and then Amsterdam, Amsterdam, like, these are things I don't know. I don't I don't have that lived experience. And I love any book that just gives me extra lived experience by reading it.

Lainey Cameron 19:06

Saleema, I have a question for you, as a fellow book marketer here, I know you say that you fell in love with book marketing while you were launching your debut. Has there been anything that's been surprising to you, like, one of the things that was surprising to me, is I discovered it's one of the reasons I went and got into helping people with book marketing. So many things that I had heard authors were told they needed to do, and then when I started digging under the covers, I saw that there was zero science behind it. And it was like, why are you telling authors to do this? It's never been proven to work. Why are you making us waste our time with this stuff? And there were quite a lot of things in that category, and so I'm interested, was there anything like that, anything that, as you went into it, that you had an expectation, and then you find that what actually works isn't exactly what you expected, or

Saleema Ishq 19:50

you've been told, yeah, there were, I was definitely surprised by a lot of things. And similarly, there were things that people said, you have, you know, you have to do giveaways. You have to certain things that everyone talks about that aren't necessarily for everyone. You have to dance on Tiktok. I don't dance on Tiktok. I think what's so important is leaning into what you feel most comfortable with, what what you your author brand.

Saleema Ishq 20:16

So again, personal branding, I think was kind of what I started with, and then I found that the that the posts, the emails, the reels that I created that were the least amount of effort were often the ones that resonated with people most, so the ones that you know on Canva and I I did stop motion videos and things that took me hours and they were fun to do, but those didn't resonate with people as much as the raw sitting in my car here was the inspiration for my novel, and that resonated with readers. So that's why, that's what I discovered. As far as not burning out, was just raw, messy, relatable was was really important.

Paulette Stout 21:00

I'm so glad I'm the only one who has all these Canva masterpieces that get like, 18 views and these other weird things where I have no makeup. Of my hair is all my phone on the side. Yeah, my family uses that word. It's kind of something that's not good. I know a lot of people like Mofongo and like no offense to anybody who likes the condition of fungo. You just say anyway, messy hair. Fun Kimberly,

Lainey Cameron 21:25

I saw you nodding. Is there anything you would add to that?

Kimberly Belle 21:27

Well, the only thing I would add, and it's more kind of, back in the beginning of what Saleema was saying, you know, we hear a lot of things, like, especially from my publisher, they're like, you have to do this. You should do that. And, you know, they're things that worked maybe even a year ago or six months ago, but the market changes so quickly, and the and the landscape changes so quickly, and so what, what used to work like the Goodreads giveaways, you used to get gazillions of people in those and now they're just kind of like So, you know, I think, I think staying on top of what's working and what's not working. For that, you need to track. You need some data. I'm not sure all publishers are really good at that.

Paulette Stout 22:13

So speaking of data, I'm curious, from like a timing perspective, like, how far in advance do you start promoting an upcoming release, and then as a kind of a corollary to that, and we'll go to sleep at first. Is there a seasonality for thrillers that you like to do? Like do? Is it always like October or, you know, like, is there a seasonality that you consider for your genre, too, when you're kind of planning the timing of

Saleema Ishq 22:38

it all? I think four to six months is kind of the sweet spot for promotion. I don't think it's ever too early to kind of start talking about your next project, but I Yeah, that's what I found. Is four to six months and this kind of

Lainey Cameron 22:55

Saleema, you are indie published, self published, correct, right? So this is an answer where you and Kimberly are going to have really very different answers because of your publishing models. And so one of the things I like to tell authors is often they read these lists that tell them they must do these things so far in advance, and they must do this, and they must do that.

Lainey Cameron 23:11

And often those lists of what you need to do are based on traditional publishing, and the idea that what matters is the bookstores and getting the bookstores excited about a book. And if you're self published, you actually want to do a lot of things after the book is things after the book is available to buy that if you were traditionally published, you might do before the launch. And so the timing of things definitely does change based on your publishing model as well. So just put that context out there.

Saleema Ishq 23:32

Yeah, thank you absolutely. Yeah.

Paulette Stout 23:37

What was this? Kimberly, what are your thoughts on the seasonality and the timing of things, yeah,

Kimberly Belle 23:42

because four to six months, that would make me really nervous. I would be like, where's everybody? Why is no one talking about my book? But that's exactly like you said. It's because, you know, the publisher is talking about it. I mean, sometimes longer than that, it's like, more like nine to 12, really, they're putting their list together.

Kimberly Belle 24:01

They're, you know, getting talking about, you know, back cover blurbs, how to get the bookstores excited, how to get their marketing and sales team excited. They're talking to, you know, going to festivals and Library Association things and, you know, and that all has a much longer lead time. And I'm thrilled to hear that there are people who are still marketing books after their pub date. Because basically, after my pub day, my publisher's like, All right, good luck. And that's that,

Lainey Cameron 24:35

yeah, it's so interesting. It's so different for indie books versus big publisher books, right? I've heard that same thing Kimberly, the publisher, like a week after is like, we're done. We're on to the

Kimberly Belle 24:43

next book already. Yeah, they're like, congrats.

Paulette Stout 24:48

And they push you in the ocean. You float off in a boat.

Lainey Cameron 24:53

So, so when you think about more traditional things, whether it's like traditional media or book. Clubs or in person events or read affairs, or some of these things that have been done over time. Do they work for thrillers? Do they still work for thrillers? I'd be interested in your take Kimberly, because you've been at this for a little while now, right? And it does change, like, do these kind of traditional things, whether it's book clubs or in person events or fairs. Or do they work? Do you do them? Do you enjoy

Kimberly Belle 25:21

them? I do do them. I go to conferences, and some of them are more reader focused than others. I go to international thriller writers, which is very market focused, like all the editors and agents are there, and it's a lot about schmoozing with other authors in the industry, people, rather than actual readers. But voucher con is another one which is very reader focused.

Kimberly Belle 25:46

And I've, I've done that and met, you know, lots of readers there. The I've done a librarian one of their Association conferences. I don't know exactly what, what they call them. I've done book festivals. Decatur here in Atlanta has a big one. And you know that, who knows? Do they work? Yes, I think they work. You know in in that you're getting out there, you're getting yourself known, you're talking to readers and other authors you're standing and, you know, and like, you're on panels, right? That's the collaborative part. So somebody might be coming to see the other people on the panel, and they're like, Oh, well, Kimberly Belle's book sounds cool. And so they've, they've discovered a new author, you know, that they can try. So I think they work. I'm not sure they move the needle in big chunks all at once. I think it's one of those gradual things that consistency and, you know, keep going to these things, keep putting yourself out there, and it'll, it'll move the needle, but not quickly there.

Saleema Ishq 26:57

Yeah, I agree it is. It is more of a long game with those events Absolutely. But again, I like to look at it as building your portfolio. And maybe readers aren't necessarily looking at, oh, Kimberly was on this panel, but maybe another a festival will and so on. So it all contributes to brand awareness and and, yeah,

Paulette Stout 27:19

agreed. So how do comp roles play into your overall marketing strategy? So when you're trying to obviously, it's, you know, covers and things like that, but also just in terms of what the marketplace is doing. Lima, you want to take that one first,

Saleema Ishq 27:38

yeah, well, to piggyback off of what Kimberly mentioned, Thriller authors, or thriller readers rather, really do look to comp titles and and a lot of marketing with thrillers is if you liked this, you'll like this, I think, especially because I do work with a lot of indie authors, specifically and new debut authors, because readers don't necessarily know their voice or their style. Yet comp titles can be really helpful in introducing kind of what to expect as far as writing style. So I like using those in Book Marketing, especially with newer authors.

Lainey Cameron 28:13

And where does that show up? Saleema is, does that show up in like, a Tiktok video, or the Amazon book description, or the author talking about the book, like, Where does the comp title that you're comparing to actually kind of come into the world?

Saleema Ishq 28:25

Yeah, all of the above, truly, yeah, using visuals in social media, infographics, in reels, in newsletter marketing and in pitching to bookstores, pitching to Yeah, yeah, to events and as well as Amazon blurb, 100% because social media platforms are now essentially serving as SEO and search engine. So people are looking to social media for where they want to go for dinner. If they're visiting somewhere new. They're looking for their next good read, their next great, unput downable book. So the more keywords that you can use, and if that's comp titles, that's great, the more discoverable books will become.

Kimberly Belle 29:12

Yeah, I agree with all that. I The only thing I could add is that I've actually used comp titles to pitch a book to my publishers, to picture story and actually sell a book to them. So, I mean, I use them all the time, and not just books. I'll comp to two movies or TV shows as well. Yeah, I

Lainey Cameron 29:31

love that. Yeah. I think it works especially well with thrillers, comping to kind of TV shows and movies, because, I don't know, maybe because they're always got the suspense element to them, like, I don't know. Yeah, so Kimball, you mentioned earlier that your backlist matters a lot, right? That readers, once they discover you, will go read their way through your back list. Is there anything you do in particular to encourage that? Like, is it just something that happens in the world, or is there anything you and your or your publisher do to kind of encourage that to happen?

Kimberly Belle 30:00

Well, my publisher typically does, you know, sales on my books in the lead up to a new title releasing. So that's not really something I have much control over, but they do do that. The other thing that they do is they'll add, as soon as we've got, like my next book in a, you know, the first couple of chapters, they'll add those to the ebooks of books that you know have already come out.

Kimberly Belle 30:27

So there's, you know, some back and forth between the titles, yeah, giveaways to amp up excitement. That's, you know, those kind of things. But that's things that I have very little control over I think the backlist stuff is more. From my point of view, what I do is more you know me just being out there on my social media and saying, Hey, I have this new book. But have you also read this? If you liked the expat affair, which was set in Amsterdam. Check out the Paris widow, also a European story, you know, things like that.

Paulette Stout 31:11

Cool. So Saleema, I'm curious, is there a marketing tactic that you've tried that wasn't worth your time? And if so, what did you learn from it? Whereas I was fine, I learned the most from my mistakes. So curious. What you've learned on your journey so far?

Saleema Ishq 31:31

I don't know that there's anything that I necessarily regret doing. They were all experiences, and I learned from everything. Um, there were some like send, like giveaways that weren't necessarily worth the energy and time and books that I put into it, because often readers will follow just to get a free book and and won't necessarily read it or leave a review. I did send, I did send 20 books off to a Halloween book, book retreat. And I'm not, and I think again, these things are like long games. I haven't seen return on that yet, but I'm hoping I will. But, yeah, just all experiences. I don't think that there's anything that really fell super flat, or that I regret doing

Kimberly Belle 32:24

here to hear y'all's experiences along these lines, talking about ads, because I used to, but this is also one of those things that I think has changed a lot. I mean, back in the day, I had some success with Facebook ads, and now it's just, I mean, I don't even bother anymore, but, I mean, where are you guys? Are you seeing success with ads?

Paulette Stout 32:48

I think for me, it ebbs and flows, you know, and right now, I've been off ads. My abs have been turned off since last November, and I've done some more newsletter focused activities and, you know, some more socially focused things, and then reaching out to specific influencers and doing those types of things a little bit more as I'm kind of reorient, or reorienting my my books, you know, re running my day, bu, recovering the books and getting them kind of better so they could perform better when I try marketing. That's kind of where I am at the moment.

Lainey Cameron 33:24

Yeah, I'm experimenting with Amazon ads right now. I've actually got a firm helping me, because I want to do it right, like the best it possibly can be, in order to know whether it works for book like my debut. Because it's a little, actually a little bit like your debut, Kimberly, and that it's kind of crossing genres, and I loved your debut. I still remember, like, the scene where she's at school and in the office and gets the big reveal at the beginning of the book, so we'll get no spoilers. But like, like, I still remember that book. It's like, still in my head. And so I wanted to try, like, even though this book is a little bit not squarely in the genre, meeting the trope, to see if it would work.

Lainey Cameron 34:01

And I will say that so far Jury's out. I've got a company doing my ads because I know what they know what they're doing, because I didn't want to like do it and be like, Well, did I not get it right? Or can it not just play with this book? And so I'm spending some money on it to find out. And so far juries out, the results so far are not mind blowing. My impression is that books that are squarely in a genre work better for Amazon ads because you've got genre readers who read their way through a genre, and if you've got the comps and you're squarely in a genre, my impression is it works better. I think Facebook ads are pretty tricky these days, and my personal belief is you're catching people at the moment of doing something on Facebook, which is not necessarily the moment that they're interested in learning about the next book.

Lainey Cameron 34:42

If you think about the way the world is imploding around us right now, you know, when you're in the middle of reading the latest whatever happened in the world, you're not necessarily going like, oh, I want a new book to read. You're going like, Oh, my God, the world's falling apart. So I just feel like you're capturing people on Facebook in this moment of doing something else entirely. And I That's my personal opinion that I think Facebook. QuickBooks ads are hard for this that reason right now, you're much better intersecting people when they're already in a reader frame of mind, in a reader community of some type. My personal take any perspective, Saleema.

Saleema Ishq 35:13

yeah, I've never had success with Facebook ads, and I agree. I think that's entirely the reason I've boosted a couple of Instagram videos and and reels, but I, yeah, I haven't really had much success.

Paulette Stout 35:28

It's so funny to hear the three of you, because I actually have had success with Facebook ads and good it, but it's but everything changes. The algorithm keeps changing.

Kimberly Belle 35:39

Yeah, yeah. I was gonna say, How long ago was that success was it?

Paulette Stout 35:43

So I'm working with one of our past guests, Heidi McIntyre, but like I said, in the packaging, right, so I can get the targeting right and doing all the things to get back on. But in the past, I think, you know, because I have a more a romance readership, they they seem like they do well on but in some of its genre specifically, I think a little bit, yeah,

Lainey Cameron 36:04

yeah, yeah. So, so we're going to go for a quick, quick break in a second. But, uh, before that, is there any one tactic? I know there's no one magic, magic like press the button. It all worked. We're all hunky dory. But is there any one thing you would point to that you would say, you know this, I've spent time in, and it's been worth my time and energy. Not that it's like the one thing that made you successful, but just like this thing I did was worth the time and energy that I put into it. Saleema anything that comes to mind for you,

Saleema Ishq 36:32

it's gonna sound very cliche, but I think authenticity and simply leaning into what who I am what inspires my writing and allowing that to show in my marketing. Again, personal branding. I love having a personal brand and incorporating my books into everything, but that, for me, has been the biggest I love

Lainey Cameron 36:54

that because that trust is genres. I don't think that's only true for thrillers, right sharing the insider view of like, Why do what you do is interesting to people. We are interesting to people, absolutely

Kimberly Belle 37:05

right? And I would agree with that. And I would also add, for me, it's been in part of that authenticity is finding a way to talk about books, that it's not only about my books, you know, and I do that. We're going to talk about that I know killer author club, but that's one of the ways in which you can, you know, you're marketing yourself at the same time you're helping others and talking about your love of books. So it just, it's it. It just is a way to get yourself in front of readers without screaming, buy my book. You know, absolutely.

Lainey Cameron 37:45

I love that. I love that for me, like, you know, it's like I said it earlier. It's taken me, like, five years to write my first book, five years to write my second book. If all I ever talked about was my own book, it would be pretty damn boring. Five years of like, buy my book. Please. Buy the first book. The next one will be here someday. And so, yeah, that's partly why I had a podcast where I interviewed other authors. Now about this podcast, I mean, it's valuable to be able to come out as yourself and to say talk about other things than just your own work. Okay, so it's our little sponsor segment, and we don't have a third party sponsor this month. If anyone wants to sponsor the podcast, please let us know. It's the best deal ever, because you turn up in all our back episodes forever.

Lainey Cameron 38:23

And so when people go back and listen through our catalog, they get to hear about you and your services. And I know that pretty much every guest we've had on here, in terms of like, people who offer marketing services, because we only pick people we believe in, have all gotten new business out of it. So if you're interested in and I know this because people write to me afterwards and tell me, like, Thank you for having so and so on. I'm not working with them so. So if you're interested in sponsoring us, we talk about your offering in a very frank and honest way. We will not take garbage vendors. I'm sorry if you do AI junk, blah, blah, blah, you're spam, whatever. We don't do this.

Lainey Cameron 38:57

We will only bring on a sponsor that we trust and believe in and that we can recommend, which also means we don't try very hard to get you sponsors. We wait until we find the right person, and so for that, we have no sponsor this month. But I will just remind you that I offer a marketing program for authors. It's a group program where I help you launch your book, and it's really good if you're, like, a debut, or you're earlier in your career, and you're kind of looking at all this stuff, people are telling you what to do, and you're going, like, ah, which of these 100 things are actually worth my time, and what does a good launch plan look like, and how do I not go crazy in this process?

Lainey Cameron 39:25

And it's group program with 10 other authors, and we walk through it together, from what is your brand, defining your brand, setting up your Amazon categories, working out what your keywords are, working out what your awareness activities are going to be, what your social proof activities are going to get reviews, how to go after influencers. I give you all the templates, and by the end of it, you have a complete plan that go execute. So I love this program. I do it more for love than money. To be honest, I just get a lot of joy out of helping other authors.

Lainey Cameron 39:25

The next one will start, the next group will start in March. So if you're interested, get on the wait list, because in the past, it has sold out with. In, sometimes within a few days when I open it up. So it's a limited number of people. I love doing it. It's a fun blast. And I consider all my past students, which is more than 30 at this point, it's kind of like I'm so proud of them every time I see one of them succeeded. Like, yay. I was a little part of that. So okay, that's it for this time. Let's get back into our next topics, which is in particular, we're going to dig in around community and collaboration, and let's go, Colette, the first question is yours?

Paulette Stout 40:26

Yeah, so we do, we talk about community a lot, like Lainey was just saying, and like Kimberly began before, and I'll start with you. So share the role community has played in your author career and where other authors have helped, and where you've, you know, been able to successfully connect with readers.

Kimberly Belle 40:47

Do you want me to go into the killer author club yet? Or do you want because I have other answers too.

Paulette Stout 40:51

Whatever you want we're going to get to whatever you want. It's answer however you want.

Kimberly Belle 40:55

Yeah, okay, well, I Well, okay, so maybe, maybe that's why I was so open for the collaboration, first with the young Ridge widows and then with killer author club. But, you know, I really spent a lot of time in the beginning of my career building my network of people in the same kind of boat as I was. You know, first it was unpublished writers or pre published. And then it was, you know, other authors who were, you know, working, doing the hustle to, you know, sell their books, things like that. So I was already a big fan of, you know, it's such a lonely job, too. Otherwise, right? We need friends. We need we need colleagues. We need people to talk us off the ledge occasionally. So I was already a big fan young, rich widows.

Kimberly Belle 41:47

You know, I collaborated on now three books. We have one more that we are going to write, and that rounds out the series. And then I started with the killer author club. It's me, Heather guten, cough, Kara Ruda, and we are the three killers, and we have a bi weekly show where we interview other thriller authors. We stream it live to Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, and then on that same week, a couple of days later, we have a podcast with a little bit of extra content specifically for podcast readers. So, and that's the platform that I really use to, you know, lift up other we use to lift up other writers in our genre and and at the same time, I firmly believe you lift one, you lift us all, kind of thing. So does that answer the question? Now, I kind of Yes.

Paulette Stout 42:42

So Saleema how what's your role with community and also connecting with readers? How does that go for you?

Saleema Ishq 42:51

Oh, agreed. It can be so lonely writing. So definitely leaning on authors for accountability, for my own writing to kind of pull me out of that spiral when I've been staring at my words for too long. I've loved connecting with I used to have some I've made incredible friends that I've never met in person, but just through social media platforms.

Saleema Ishq 43:14

On Zoom writing sessions, and I really love connecting with readers on especially Tiktok, I wholeheartedly believe there's, there's more than enough room on the shelf for everyone. So agreed with everything Kimberly said that we lift each other up, and authors are the best readers out there, too. So we're always reading each other's work, which is so wonderful.

Lainey Cameron 43:38

And are there specific reader communities. I'll start with you, Saleema, that you've found that are good for thriller readers. Like, do they hang out in particular locations or places? Like, are there specific communities?

Saleema Ishq 43:50

As far as social media, I think book talk, Thriller talk, has a lot of thriller readers and authors, and it's really fun to connect there. And then Facebook groups. I know we talked a little bit about Facebook, but there are a lot of groups of readers and authors as well that that connect and and share. So I think that those groups are really helpful. Yeah,

Kimberly Belle 44:13

I agree with that. The private Facebook groups, those are where some serious hardcore readers are. And then I would, yeah, bookstore or Tiktok book talk is, you know, I get some decent views there. I don't have a lot of followers there. It's not my platform. It doesn't come naturally. I'm, I think I'm a little more natural on Instagram, but, yeah, I agree with all those places.

Paulette Stout 44:44

So let's stay on the whole on the social space of you know, whether it's book talk, Instagram or bloggers, what role do you feel like influencers play in terms of your book marketing success, and how do you build those relationships with the people? People who are book reviewers or influencers on social media or in book spaces. We'll start with Kimberly there.

Kimberly Belle 45:08

I think they're hugely important to the success of not just a book, but an author, if you can, you know, and that's also something that it's hard. I mean, you can send them books. You can chat with them on social media. You can, you know, be on their pages, liking their stuff, but really, they have to love your book. So, you know, it's almost something that happens more organically. You kind of put yourself out there and hope that they that they latch on and like your stuff.

Kimberly Belle 45:43

But, you know, I mean, it's, it's also one of those not quick things you have to, you know, kind of target the people that you think are have, the people or that are talking about books like yours, and maybe they would like yours. You have to build a relationship, and it's a lot of work. It's fun work, but it's a lot of work.

Paulette Stout 46:06

Sort of take on this topic. Yeah,

Saleema Ishq 46:09

I agree with everything Kimberly said. It does happen organically and over, over a little bit of time I did what? Before I launched my debut, I looked for specifically local books to grammars in my area, and connected with a couple of girls that are that I'm friends with now, and to be totally honest, I don't know if they like my books. I hope that they like my books, but we connected as readers and as people as well. So we meet every month for a book club, and yeah, that's been, that's been a really great relationship to

Paulette Stout 46:47

have, yeah, and I for you on go

Kimberly Belle 46:50

ahead, Kimberly, I would just add to that, like, that's one way to connect with influencers. Book influencers is to connect with them as readers, right? If they are putting out, I love this book, and you've read it, and you're like, oh my god, I love that, too. What else you know? I mean, so you can just start up a conversation that way, without being like, here's my book.

Paulette Stout 47:09

Crazy, yeah, and remembering the interesting because, like, you hear, you hear conversations about authors and reader spaces. So you know, that's very a big kind of a topic. Have you ever had any issues in that space? Or how do you navigate any awkwardness when you want to just start as a reader in a reader space, but you are an author,

Kimberly Belle 47:31

I think the most important is like, don't comment on your your own book. Like, if people are talking about your own book, you know you can say, thank you. Oh, I'm so glad you liked it, or drop a heart, or something like that, but do not engage with any other of the, you know, the conversations. But like we said earlier, authors are readers first, right? So it's normal for us to get out there and be like, Oh, I love this book. And have you read this one? You know? I mean, that's, really what the conversation's about.

Lainey Cameron 48:03

Well, that actually leads me to a question for Saleema relative to Tiktok. So it's a two parter, but I'm going to build on what Kimberly just said. Is a or actually the question that Colette asked is, I'm not as familiar with this in Tiktok land, so if someone is talking about your book and Tiktok, right? I know on Instagram like, it's a little dicey and like you like Kimberly says the most you do on Instagram and say, Thank you so much, right? You don't get into if someone in Tiktok is talking about your book, let's say they're raving about it and they loved it. Is the protocol that it's okay to say, like, thank you so much, or is the protocol that you should stay the heck out of it?

Saleema Ishq 48:36

Oh, um, I'm not savvy with the protocol. I would say, I would say, it's perfectly fine to say thank you, especially if they're raving about it. I think, yeah, that's what I would do, all right. Well, you do

Lainey Cameron 48:50

it. You do it more than I do. So that's you're more of an expert than you think you are. You've got 16,000 followers, and I'm interested in for book content. What do you post on Tiktok? Because we don't all, currently, not everybody is listening to this is even on Tiktok for books or following you over there. So what kind of content do you create and post over there?

Saleema Ishq 49:08

As I mentioned, raw, messy thing in my car, just face to camera videos. Typically, I like, I like educational content. I think that, I think that content needs to there needs to be a value and a purpose behind all content, whether that's educating, entertaining or engaging. I like sharing what I'm reading. I like sharing the why behind why. I write updates on my life. I do like engaging with Tiktok trends. And I do have a series called Take this trend, but make it bookish, and I offer examples for how to incorporate it into your book marketing.

Saleema Ishq 49:50

But that's one of the things that I really tried to force at the beginning, that really did end up burning me out a little bit, was trying to do every single trend. And. Then I discovered I don't need to do all of them, and I can just make them fun. So I like to look at posting as a way to not just connect with my community, but get closer to my work in progress and my characters. So I'll create pick your favorite coffee drink, and then each coffee drink will have one of my characters attached to it. So you pick your favorite coffee, and then you get a character. So stuff posts like that feel like an extension of my storytelling. And that's how I look at marketing on social media, just an extent, a creative extension.

Lainey Cameron 50:35

I like that. One of the things I tell my students in my class is, if you hate it, don't do it like, like, you know, because A, you hate it, it's gonna drain your energy that you could be spending writing and being creative. And B, everybody knows you hate it, make yourself do something that you absolutely loathe. Everybody can tell that you think so obvious. Yep. Kimberly, what is your platform? So I know that the killer author club, like you say you broadcast to edit to all these locations. But like, what is the primary social media platform that you found it's worth your energy or that you like to invest in?

Kimberly Belle 51:07

I'm a lot on Facebook, but mostly in the private groups. I mean, I do post to my pages, but really I see the most engagement in the private groups that are specifically reader and book focused. Killer author club is one of them, readers. Coffee House is another. I'm one of the founding members. And we have, you know, all sorts of bookish stuff, not just thrillers, it's every genre.

Kimberly Belle 51:31

There's another called psychological thriller readers. I think last count, they had like, couple 100,000 close to a million. Actually, it's huge. So there, there are some really, really big ones on Facebook. I'm also a lot on Instagram. I actually enjoy Instagram. I think it's fun because it's very esthetically pleasing to me. You know, really fun. It's less raw than Tiktok. I agree with you. Saleema on the Tiktok stuff, the ones that do really well there seem to be the where you're just kind of spouting off unplanned at the camera. Those get all the views that one and my dog, my dog gets better views than I do, but she really is cute.

Paulette Stout 52:18

It's so funny you say that, Kim, because yesterday I had a, like, a shoe fiasco where my shoes literally decayed on my feet, like the uppers fell off, and I was, like, barefoot in a Target parking lot, like, it was, like a bad situation. And I posted about, like, my broken shoes and like that definitely got more views than I sometimes get.

Kimberly Belle 52:37

It's weird, the things that take off on Tiktok, and I think that's what makes it so confused, not confusing, but so like, strange for me is you never know what's going to work. You put all this the you know, you jump on a trend, or you put all this thought into something, and it doesn't do anything. Whereas you post about your broken shoes, and nobody's like, yeah, oh my god, I hate it when that happens.

Lainey Cameron 53:02

Yeah, I think it's because we're all human, and we want to relate to fellow humans, right? Like, like, there's more of a relational human, human element to broken shoes than a beautiful, creative video that you're like, it's hard to relate to palette. The next question is

Paulette Stout 53:18

yours? Yes, yes. So I'd love to know. I'll start with you. Saleema, so we have an author newsletter. If so, how do you use it? How often? And you know, is there anything kind of thrillery that you do about, you know, your whole newsletter experience for your followers?

Saleema Ishq 53:37

Yes, I do have an author newsletter. And I do monthly newsletters, or occasionally, when I'm doing an event or a need to let people know about something time sensitive. But I I like recommending again, what I'm reading. I'll give a review of a book that I always a thriller that I read. I offer journal prompts. It's always kind of a little bit a little bit even more raw, I guess in social media, a little bit more of a glimpse into my life as a thriller author. So, yeah, I think that offering, offering, newsletter subscribers, just a little something different. I think is helpful.

Paulette Stout 54:22

Cool. How about you, Kim?

Kimberly Belle 54:24

I have an author newsletter, which I really neglect, but I also do the killer author club newsletter, and that's once a month, and we see such good numbers in terms of engagement and clicks and all that with with the killer author club newsletter, that I feel like it's better my time is better put into running that one than my own author one. I think there's probably a lot of crossover anyway, so yeah, and I think it's you know again, about the collaboration.

Kimberly Belle 54:59

Is that there's kind of something for everyone, right? We talk about all the different books, the authors that are coming on that coming month. We highlight books to grammars, two or three books to grammars and like, what they're reading, why they love the Bookstagram community. So, you know, I mean, we have, it's a much broader, you know, newsletter, than just if Kimberly Bell is out there talking about Kimberly Bell's books,

Paulette Stout 55:30

I like that, like some of those ideas you have there, those are great,

Lainey Cameron 55:33

yeah, and we're almost into our last couple of questions here. Any thoughts on what you do to maintain momentum after the launch? And the answer may be, not much. I'm focused on writing my next book at that point. But is there anything in particular you put energy into? I mean, Kimberly, maybe for you it is this whole community and the killer other club and the newsletter and everything, and that's everything you need to do. But like, is there anything else you do to try and maintain momentum when you're between books? That's a lot already.

Kimberly Belle 56:03

Yeah, outside of those things, you know, not, not. I have to think about that. I mean, I jump on, like I just did with the Paris widow because of the robbery at the louver. I jumped on that, you know, like, this is straight out of my novel, kind of, yeah, you know, so things like that, you have to stay kind of nimble, I guess, to do, but it's, it's really hard when you're traditionally published to to keep your book front of mind when the publisher is kind of like, on to their next book, right?

Lainey Cameron 56:47

That makes sense, which is funny, because readers find the backlist, and they go through the whole back list. And so it's like publishers are on one way of thinking, and readers don't see the world at all like that, right? They don't go like, Oh, this book came out five years ago from Kimberly. I'm not going to read it like they're like, dang, another book, right?

Kimberly Belle 57:02

And actually, backlist is what's keeping publishers afloat. So you would think that they would be wanting to, you know, invest a little bit more in getting that backlist out there. But, yeah,

Lainey Cameron 57:15

I don't think publishers are so smart on this one compared to indie authors. I agree with that, because, like, the indie authors are very good at knowing which of their books leads to the most read through of their other books, right? And like, therefore, go promote the one that does the best on promoting read through. I think most big publishers don't even know, for their stable of authors, which book is the one that promotes the most read through of other books, because they're like, they're at arm's length through the bookstore. So they often don't have the data, and

Kimberly Belle 57:41

if they do, if they do know those things, they don't share it with the authors. I'm like, Hey, we're supposed to be a team. It's, it's, it can honestly be a little frustrating sometimes. Yeah, yeah. So I'm like this to hear your answer. Saleema,

Saleema Ishq 57:57

my answer is that I don't stop marketing, because you never know when. You never know when, the first time that someone discovers your book, anytime could be the first time that a reader discovers your book. So just as Lainey said, nobody's going to say it, well, that came out five years ago, I'm not going to read it, because it could be the first time that they've heard of it. So I, yeah, I continue posting, highlighting i and it's I love being able to control too.

Saleema Ishq 58:25

That was one of the reasons why I wanted to go indie, was I can have a sale whenever I want. And so my book is free this weekend, for example. And then, you know, second editions or audio book. I'm going to release my AUDIO BOOK OF sisters, Arcana, on the one year anniversary of its release. So I'm going to be sharing a little bit more about the audiobook recording, because I recorded it myself, which is a whole experience, but there's content to share,

Lainey Cameron 58:51

well done that's hard, difficult. Listening

Saleema Ishq 58:55

to it back, listening to my voice has been the most challenging part.

Paulette Stout 58:59

It's so funny. People ask me, oh, did you do your audiobooks? Like no one wants to a nasal New Yorker for 11 hours? Yeah, I didn't do it well done. No, I

Lainey Cameron 59:13

didn't do my same reason. Like my accent is so weird that it is for people wondering. I am Scottish originally, but spent 20 years in California, and I live in Mexico, and my accent Mexico, and my accent is somewhere along the middle

Kimberly Belle 59:24

of all of those I was gonna ask you I heard I was gonna get, if, I guess it would have been some sort of Scottish Irish with maybe Canadian or something. I know I heard,

Lainey Cameron 59:37

I mostly get Canadian. And so, like, everybody would spend the entire book going like that is the weirdest accent ever. Where is she from? That is not what you want. It takes people out of the story. So, yeah, I was, like, very clear that I would not do my audiobook. Okay, so I think

Paulette Stout 59:52

there you go. I couldn't no smiling too much. This is too entertaining. This is so much

Lainey Cameron 59:57

fun. What should we have? Ask us our last question here. Paulette, I know we're at the top of the hour here, so we should let our guests go.

Paulette Stout 1:00:05

Yeah, I would just thank them for coming. This has been a great, great conversation on thrills. I know we have a lot of listeners and friends who write thrillers, and it's always great to hear the perspective from different publishing paths and from experienced authors who have found success. And just thank you so much for joining us.

Lainey Cameron 1:00:24

I'm going to give Saleema a chance here. I know you offer marketing services like you help other authors. Can you just give us, like, the 32nd version of what do you do to help other authors?

Saleema Ishq 1:00:33

Yeah, I work with authors, specifically, again, indie and debut authors, primarily on Tiktok marketing or Instagram marketing, whatever social media marketing they need most support with. But yeah, coming help with trending, trending audios, how to make trends bookish, and it's usually a four week package where we kind of work on branding and then leaning into what types of content you post, and then coming up with a 90 day content plan so you know exactly what to post every day for three months.

Lainey Cameron 1:01:07

Nice.

Paulette Stout 1:01:11

I'm gonna be calling you, Saleema.

Saleema Ishq 1:01:12

Would love to help.

Lainey Cameron 1:01:13

And Kimberly, we will put the info for killer author club and also readers coffee house on the event on the event page, the episode page on our website, and in the details of the episode here. And if you haven't read both of these books, Selena's latest and all of Kimberly's back catalog, I encourage you to go check them out, because they are among the best, most thrilling, exciting reads out there. Like I said, I I love doing this podcast because I get to pick my favorite authors to bring on because I'm totally biased.

Saleema Ishq 1:01:43

Thank you so much for having us.

Kimberly Belle 1:01:46

I learned a lot.

Lainey Cameron 1:01:47

Good. Well, enjoy the rest of your evening.

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Lainey Cameron